Bronx Fire: 12 DOAs

[Prosay]

nypost.com
12 dead after fire sweeps through Bronx apartment building
By C.J. Sullivan
5-6 minutes

The city’s deadliest blaze in more than a quarter-century killed least 12 people — ­including a year-old child — in a Bronx apartment building Thursday night, officials said.

Authorities feared the death toll could rise from the four-alarm fire, which began at 6:51 p.m. and gutted 2363 Prospect Ave. (btw 185 & 187 Sts) in the Belmont neighborhood near the Bronx Zoo.

“We’re here at the scene of an unspeakable tragedy in the middle of the holiday season, a time when families are ­together,” Mayor de Blasio said during a press briefing at the scene, where bone-chilling temperatures were in the teens.
 

“Tonight, here in The Bronx, there are families that have been torn apart. This is the worst fire tragedy we have seen in this city in at least a quarter-century.”

The fire stands to be the deadliest New York City blaze since 87 people perished in March 1990 in the Happy Land social-club arson attack, which took place less than a mile away.

About 170 firefighters worked Thursday night to control the blaze at the five-story building just a block from the Bronx Zoo, authorities said.

“Based on the information now, I’m very sorry to report 12 New Yorkers are dead, including one child as young as one-year-old,” de Blasio said.

“There are four people critically injured who are fighting for their lives. Other serious injuries as well.”

The baby was found in a bathtub — cradled in the arms of her mother, who was desperately trying to protect her child from the flames, law-enforcement and FDNY sources said.

Both had perished.

De Blasio warned that more victims could be found as investigators go through the building: “We may lose others as well.”

The mayor praised New York’s Bravest, who got to the scene about three minutes after the first report came in.

“Because of FDNY’s quick response, based on the information we have now . . . at least 12 people were rescued and will survive,” de Blasio said.

Thierme Diallo, who lives on the first floor, ran shoeless out of the burning building into the freezing night in only a bathrobe.

“I was in my bed sleeping . . . and somebody knock on the door shouting, ‘We have fire in the building. Get out! Get out!’ ” said Diallo, a security guard and ­native of Guinea.

“I don’t know how I get out, no socks, nothing. I left my cellphone there, I took only my wallet. I had to save myself. Then, by the exit, I saw the glass coming down like flames.”

Among the missing is 28-year-old Emmanuel Mensah, who serves in the Army and was home for the holidays, according to his dad, Kwabena Mensah.

“When they rescued [others] . . . they couldn’t find him,” the worried dad said.

Witnesses said they were amazed at how quickly the flames spread.

“It got bad quick,” said a neighborhood resident named Kimberly.

“People were on the fire escapes getting out before [rescuers] showed up, and the firemen got there quick.

“You could see the smoke going through the building,” she said.

Another witness, Xanral Collins, said he feared more children could be among the fatalities.

“A father ran into the building — he couldn’t get in,” Collins ­recalled.

“I saw him screaming, ‘My ­babies are dead! My babies are dead!’ ”

Another witness, Jamal Flicker, said he spotted flames erupting near trash cans.

“It started down where they take the garbage,” he said.

“The smoke was crazy, people screaming, ‘Get out!’ I heard a woman yelling, ‘We’re trapped! Help!’ ”

A second-floor resident named Rafael said he barely escaped.

“The smoke was bad. I had to run for my life out of there,” he said.

FDNY fire marshals didn’t immediately speculate on what could have touched off the inferno.

The blaze was seen shooting up the building’s main stairwell, choking off that one crucial escape path, law-enforcement sources told The Post.

Flames accelerated at one point when they reached a natural-gas line, sources said.

Investigators with the federal ATF Arson & Explosion unit, the FDNY and NYPD combed through the building late into the night.

“We’re shocked by this loss,” FDNY Commissioner Daniel ­Nigro said. “The fire started on the first floor, quickly spread upstairs into this . . . five-story building with 25 apartments.

“People died on various floors of the apartment. We won’t tell you anything more about it other than they range in ages from 1 to over 50.”

Nigro said the blaze was “without question historic in its magnitude.”

“Our hearts go out to every family that lost a loved one here and everyone that’s fighting for their lives,” the commissioner said.

De Blasio urged New Yorkers to pray for the holiday-week victims: “This evening, hold your families close and keep these families here in The Bronx in your prayers.”

Not including the 9/11 terror attacks, the worst fire in New York City history was the Brooklyn Theater fire of Dec. 5, 1876, which claimed at least 278 lives — and perhaps more than 300.

And the only other city blaze more deadly than the Happy Land arson blaze was the infamous Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire of March 25, 1911.

Additional reporting by Joe Marino

[Prosay]

There's something more to this fire than what's being publicly disseminated.

As the above article states, this is the worst loss of life in a fire since the Happy Lands fire in the Bronx, and that was out-right arson, compounded by a TOTALLY illegal place of public assembly.

This fire was a run-of-the-mill tenement, the type of building where fires occur almost daily, especially in certain neighborhoods. And as anyone who has ever worked in those "certain neighborhoods" knows, when there's a fire of any magnitude, the first car on the scene sees tons of people running out the entrance and dozens more on the fire escapes. Yet, in this one, each apartment that they opened had more casualties in them, almost to the extent that they made no move to get out.

Usually in this type of fire, the casualties are in the original apartment on fire, or the one above it. These casualties were on several floors.

There are now news reports that possibly there was an ignited gas line in the building. I guess it could be that this gas line MAY have leaked for a period of time (but the boiler still did work) causing a carbon monoxide leak through the heating vents. The ignition of this gas line was secondary to this original leak. Possibly someone tampering with the line, maybe an attempt to "tap into" the gas line, which failed.

The only other thing I can think of is that, despite the building being on fire, the people thought it was too cold to exit the building and decided to take their chances and stay warm.

Otherwise, this loss of life in such an otherwise "common" fire is somewhat hard to comprehend.

[wobblypops]

What a horrible way to go

[Prosay]

Another point to bring out was that many of those "critical" were taken to Jacobi Hospital.

One news report said it was because of the "burn unit" there. But Jacobi also has a hyperbaric chamber to off-set carbon monoxide poisoning (and other such issues).

[Prosay]

I guess I was in the ballpark with the cause.....something to do with gas:

nypost.com
Mayor: Deadly Bronx fire likely sparked by child playing with stove
By Yoav Gonen and Natalie Musumeci
1-2 minutes

The city’s deadliest inferno in more than a quarter-century was likely sparked by a young child playing with a stove in a first-floor unit, Mayor Bill de Blasio said Friday.

“What we think at this point is unfortunately it emanated from an accident — a young child playing with a stove on the first floor,” de Blasio said on WNYC Radio

“It spread rapidly upward … accidental from everything we can see,” the mayor said.

The fast-moving five-alarm Bronx blaze, which killed 12, including children, quickly spread to the top floor of the Prospect Avenue building in the Belmont section of the borough Thursday night.

City records revealed that the building had at least one open violation involving a defective carbon monoxide detector, and a faulty smoke detector in an apartment on its first floor.

But de Blasio said it appears “there was nothing problematic about the building that contributed to this tragedy.”

The mayor added: “The reminder is be very, very careful with your children anywhere near a source of fire … keep them away and create as many barriers as possible.”

[ohyeahbro]

Probably a lot of SROs in the building. I remember from my time in the Bronx that every apartment seemed chopped up with walls where they shouldn’t be.

[bohica9]

Besides the horrible deaths of those innocents, another group of victims are often overlooked and quickly forgotten.

Firemen, Cops, EMS may also carry the terrible memories of what they saw for the rest of their lives.

Another reason why "20 is plenty" and your pension is the least they can do for us.

[wobblypops]

I see there were at least 6 injured fire fighters too. They showed the fire on the weather channel and those poor men look exhausted.

Knowing how cold it is out there makes this even worse. What a sad day

[Prosay]

Firemen, Cops, EMS may also carry the terrible memories of what they saw for the rest of their lives.

For some, it's not the first time they've seen something like that. And for most, it won't be the last.

They better get used to seeing it.

This idea of having psychologist visiting firehouses after such a thing only weakens the reserve of those in the job. The idea of having a cadre of workers, like cops, EMS, and firemen, to handle these things is that, from the experience and training (and also being caught up in the bureaucracy of the incident), they are able to put aside personal "feelings" about the incident and make sure things get done.

If they can't do it without outside "help," and need a "crutch," maybe they're in the wrong employ. These jobs are are not for the faint of heart.

[3train8x4]

A 3 year old playing with a stove ? Where is the parental supervision. Horrible.

[wobblypops]

Dec 29, 2017 12:08:05 GMT -5 Prosay said:

Firemen, Cops, EMS may also carry the terrible memories of what they saw for the rest of their lives.

For some, it's not the first time they've seen something like that. And for most, it won't be the last.

They better get used to seeing it.

This idea of having psychologist visiting firehouses after such a thing only weakens the reserve of those in the job. The idea of having a cadre of workers, like cops, EMS, and firemen, to handle these things is that, from the experience and training (and also being caught up in the bureaucracy of the incident), they are able to put aside personal "feelings" about the incident and make sure things get done.

If they can't do it without outside "help," and need a "crutch," maybe they're in the wrong employ. These jobs are are not for the faint of heart.

How cold and bitter.

In the county o just moved from there is only one paid fire fighter on the books. Everyone else is a volunteer. My capt friend found 2 two children in a house fire and he's never been the same. He eventually stepped down from being the capt and he did his job as a volunteer on his own free will. You should he ashamed of yourself for being so cold.

Just because someone is being paid to do a job doesn't mean they aren't human. Everyone has that moment that can break you and haunt you. I hope none of the people I know ever turns out like you.

[3train8x4]

Just because you're a cop, fireman, or EMT,doesn't mean you're not human. Some jobs you've been on stay with you forever.

[Elmo334]

Dec 29, 2017 12:49:05 GMT -5 wobblypops said:

Dec 29, 2017 12:08:05 GMT -5 Prosay said:

For some, it's not the first time they've seen something like that. And for most, it won't be the last.

They better get used to seeing it.

This idea of having psychologist visiting firehouses after such a thing only weakens the reserve of those in the job. The idea of having a cadre of workers, like cops, EMS, and firemen, to handle these things is that, from the experience and training (and also being caught up in the bureaucracy of the incident), they are able to put aside personal "feelings" about the incident and make sure things get done.

If they can't do it without outside "help," and need a "crutch," maybe they're in the wrong employ. These jobs are are not for the faint of heart.

How cold and bitter.

In the county o just moved from there is only one paid fire fighter on the books. Everyone else is a volunteer. My capt friend found 2 two children in a house fire and he's never been the same. He eventually stepped down from being the capt and he did his job as a volunteer on his own free will. You should he ashamed of yourself for being so cold.

Just because someone is being paid to do a job doesn't mean they aren't human. Everyone has that moment that can break you and haunt you. I hope none of the people I know ever turns out like you.

Prosay was never a cop or fireman and knows nothing about what it is like to deal with scenes like what happened in the Bronx. No one can or should get used to seeing people burned alive. He is a douchebag.

[hapd]

NYPD RANT 1998 to THEE RANT 7/13/2017 16,575 posts and who's counting?

remember the Bronx fire with a muslum family-one daddy, two wives and like six kids most died in the fire. he did not. any thought to prosecute being married to two women at the same time. some times, fires bring out other bad behavior to the fore front. Lastly, a fire in a Bronx building, w,ere the apartment was subdivided, caused several FF'ers to jump from a window. several died. One survived, although his head was separated from his spine. thankfully surgeons were able to put him back together. the others not so. greed wins again and political correctness takes lives once again.
the 12 that perished, one can hope the smoke killed before the flames did. the smell of roasting flesh is still in my mind, from 911. i hate fires.

[disgraziatow]

"Prosay was never a cop or fireman and knows nothing" Can you expound upon that a bit. He's been around for years pontificating about police matters. How was he allowed to post on LER and the other Rant. I remember there was some discord about him attending/not attending a cops funeral years ago. I do enjoy most of what he posts.

[frmraux]

I think the point that prosay was trying to say was that as first responders, jobs like this fire basically come with the territory. You are part of a team and your teammates depend on you to be 100% operating on all cylinders both physically and emotionally. If you are at the point where the emotional toll of these calls is too much to handle (and i am not saying anything negative about anyone who experiences this), then at that instant you are a liability. You are a liability to your teammates who depend on you, you are a liability to the public that seeks your aid, and you are a liability to youself.
It is incumbent upon you to recognize as a professional if youre still able to do your job. And if you cannot handle the emotional aspects of these calls, there is absolutely no shame in stepping aside because of that.

[Elmo334]

Dec 29, 2017 14:23:05 GMT -5 frmraux said:

I think the point that prosay was trying to say was that as first responders, jobs like this fire basically come with the territory. You are part of a team and your teammates depend on you to be 100% operating on all cylinders both physically and emotionally. If you are at the point where the emotional toll of these calls is too much to handle (and i am not saying anything negative about anyone who experiences this), then at that instant you are a liability. You are a liability to your teammates who depend on you, you are a liability to the public that seeks your aid, and you are a liability to youself.
It is incumbent upon you to recognize as a professional if youre still able to do your job. And if you cannot handle the emotional aspects of these calls, there is absolutely no shame in stepping aside because of that.

Prosay was talking out his ass as he usually does. He isn't a cop or fireman and takes shots at firemen whenever he can.

[wobblypops]

Dec 29, 2017 14:23:05 GMT -5 frmraux said:

I think the point that prosay was trying to say was that as first responders, jobs like this fire basically come with the territory. You are part of a team and your teammates depend on you to be 100% operating on all cylinders both physically and emotionally. If you are at the point where the emotional toll of these calls is too much to handle (and i am not saying anything negative about anyone who experiences this), then at that instant you are a liability. You are a liability to your teammates who depend on you, you are a liability to the public that seeks your aid, and you are a liability to youself.
It is incumbent upon you to recognize as a professional if youre still able to do your job. And if you cannot handle the emotional aspects of these calls, there is absolutely no shame in stepping aside because of that.

I'm not so sure this is 100 percent correct. I've been in a few situations where my adrenaline had kicked in and took over everything I had to do. Once it was over and I realized what was going on it sucked and I was a mental mess. I don't have training like all of you do on here but I know what it's like to have pure instinct kick in.

I think everyone is haunted about something and if you aren't then I think you are incapable of human decency and you could probably be the person that could hurt others and be just like the people who caused the crap you guys have to clean up and solve.

If he feels this way about the fire fighters and or the cops then I can only imagine the hatred he has against our military personnel who come home messed up from war.

[wobblypops]

I signed up to become a volunteer fore fighter. My husband had a fit and this was the only time he said I wasn't allowed to do something.

In some ways it's a good thing that I don't fear fire bit in another way that could put me in a dangerous situation.

As a joke I call myself Susie arsonist since I have been around campfires since I've been a few months old. I respect fire and I am safe around it but going into a burning home is a different story

[frmraux]

Dec 29, 2017 15:04:02 GMT -5 wobblypops said:

Dec 29, 2017 14:23:05 GMT -5 frmraux said:

I think the point that prosay was trying to say was that as first responders, jobs like this fire basically come with the territory. You are part of a team and your teammates depend on you to be 100% operating on all cylinders both physically and emotionally. If you are at the point where the emotional toll of these calls is too much to handle (and i am not saying anything negative about anyone who experiences this), then at that instant you are a liability. You are a liability to your teammates who depend on you, you are a liability to the public that seeks your aid, and you are a liability to youself.
It is incumbent upon you to recognize as a professional if youre still able to do your job. And if you cannot handle the emotional aspects of these calls, there is absolutely no shame in stepping aside because of that.

I'm not so sure this is 100 percent correct. I've been in a few situations where my adrenaline had kicked in and took over everything I had to do. Once it was over and I realized what was going on it sucked and I was a mental mess. I don't have training like all of you do on here but I know what it's like to have pure instinct kick in.

I think everyone is haunted about something and if you aren't then I think you are incapable of human decency and you could probably be the person that could hurt others and be just like the people who caused the crap you guys have to clean up and solve.

If he feels this way about the fire fighters and or the cops then I can only imagine the hatred he has against our military personnel who come home messed up from war.

I see your point and i agree with it. If you allow your emotions to get in the way of how you handle a job then thats not good and at the same time if your not able to feel human emotion then thats a major problem as well. My point was that anyone that gets too swallowed up from all the death and destruction they see should have the clarity to step aside and there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying " i cant do this anymore". However more often than not some guys unfortunately do let it get the best of them and they feel theure is no one to listen to so they sometomes resort to other avemues to alleviate these feelings thats when things get out of hand.

[wobblypops]

I know a few volunteers who have had to step down from what they saw.

I'm a good listener and I let them talk and share anything with me. I also do this with vets. I seem to have a gift where I make people comfortable around me and they open up easily to me. I ask no questions. I let them get everything off their chest. I've help vets with PTSD. I've helped EMTs and some of their stories haunt me.

One that will always stick in my mind was when a friend had to scrap body parts off the guard rails. It was horrible for her. She was new at being a volunteer and this ate her up. She was talking about my other friend's sister but I didn't want her to know what I knew so I just did my thing. She said it helped to talk and to openly cry about it. The whole time it was killing me inside.

[wobblypops]

You know what? Maybe Prosay's way of acting out is his coping mechanism to handle what the job did to him.

He makes great posts and is pretty knowledgeable but sometimes he acts out. Maybe it's from something he dealt with on the streets

[bohica9]

The point I was (and still am) making is that many First Responders carry sad memories with them for the rest of their lives and are, therefore, often unrecognized victims of these tragedies as well.

More than once, I came home after a Late Tour and hugged my kids without telling them (or anyone on this board) why.

There are sights, smells or sounds that remind me (and many of you) of some sh!tty scenes that we wish had never happened or wish we could have prevented.

That doesn't mean anyone has to "step aside" or any bs like that.

We all choose how to deal with these issues in our own way, some benefit from counseling, some reject the suggestion, some quietly work things through with prayer, some drink the memories away, some make foolish decisions.

I'm sorry, but I don't think anyone on this board should be suggesting anyone step aside EVER !

A REAL cop, active or retired, would find a way to quietly get help to a Brother or Sister in blue EVERY F'ING Time.

Anyone on this board, who REALLY has walked a mile in a cop's or firemen's or medic's shoes, knows what I mean.

Anyone who hasn't walked the walk, should not talk the talk (in this matter).

Really pisses me off...

The same applies to our military, my son was a Combat Photographer in the USMC and had to photographically document the aftermath of any actions of his unit, including dead civilians/kids (almost always at the hands of the enemy).

[899xxxandretired]

No criminal charges??  Are you freaking kidding me?   UNBELIEVABLE!!

[mongo]

God Bless the children