Another MOS caught shoplifting

[Prosay]

I think the terminology is, one retires, "With the permission of the Police Commissioner...."

[twohandspete]

After 20, the pension is yours regardless. Only a felony conviction can take your pension after 20. The job can threaten you all they want, it’s still your pension. They can stick the good guy letter where the sun don’t shine.

[Prosay]

After 20, the pension is yours regardless.

True, but if they want to "get you," they can.

If the "permission of the Police Commissioner" is not forthcoming, two things can happen: they can hold up your retirement and keep you on the job to face in-house penalties for whatever malfeasance they want to get you on. The penalties may be relatively severe, like a long-term suspension and massive fine, which would keep you on the job longer.

Now if you decide to say, "fuck them..." and walk out the door to await the processing of the paperwork for the pension...that, too, may be a long wait, or may not come at all. The first day you don't show up for work, you're AWOL, and awaiting charges and specs for that.

The fact that there is now a law "protecting" the pension does not mean you can burn the bridges behind you after you get caught doing something they don't like. This sergeant will probably be lucky: Delatorre probably walked this guy's paperwork through the system personally to get him out on good terms (after all, maybe this guy knows things about Delatorre that ol' Eddie doesn't want too many people to know....!).

[peoplesmayor]

Dec 24, 2017 6:07:32 GMT -5 wobblypops said:

Dec 23, 2017 15:14:04 GMT -5 peoplesmayor said:

He has a family to clothed. Christmas time can be a tough time to make ends meet.

So does everyone else in the country and people making a lot less do it without stealing. Why does he think any store owner owes him?

To be clear, I was being sarcastic..

[march302005]

Dec 24, 2017 6:07:32 GMT -5 wobblypops said:

Dec 23, 2017 15:14:04 GMT -5 peoplesmayor said:

He has a family to clothed. Christmas time can be a tough time to make ends meet.

So does everyone else in the country and people making a lot less do it without stealing. Why does he think any store owner owes him?

I’m hearing his defense is, he only lowered the price to Black Friday prices. He was there on Black Friday, but the line was too long. 

[lexordo]

I think that we are each partially correct and partially incorrect on his "retirement".

If he walks into the administrative boss for his command...and there is certainly an administrative lieutenant in his command and informs him (or her) that effective immediately, I am resigning...that is it. Our job cannot stop any person from resigning. You fill out a simple form and waive the "exit interview". You do not need the permission of the commissioner or any other person to resign. You then go to the Pension Section and file for what is rightfully yours. Yes, there will be hemming and hawing about if there are charges pending or not. That is Department charges. You have resigned and they cannot force you back to face those charges or to answer any questions. You are no longer employed by the NYPD. If there are criminal charges...that is to be dealt with within the court system...not the NYPD's administrative system. Baring a felony conviction...you will get your pension. Could there be a delay? Sure. But you will eventually get every penny that you are owed.

[wobblypops]

Dec 24, 2017 11:24:22 GMT -5 peoplesmayor said:

Dec 24, 2017 6:07:32 GMT -5 wobblypops said:

So does everyone else in the country and people making a lot less do it without stealing. Why does he think any store owner owes him?

To be clear, I was being sarcastic..

Thanks. I didn't pick up on it.

[tenkar]

You can not be suspended without pay for longer than 30 days, after which they must place you on suspended with pay status.

Additionally, you CAN retire whenever you wish. Folks go down to Pension unannounced all of the time. As stated above, who cares about the Good Guy Letter.

Oh, and its any Felony or Official Misconduct (Misd) that can cost you the pension after 20. Folks forget that little piece.

[dustoff262]

You can leave the job any way you like. Pending charges, on restriction, modified etc. The job owes you NOTHING. Not a good guy letter and even your pension if you are on the cusp of being fired for cause. There are a few MOS who had to sue to get their pension.

The one that got got caught up in the licensing division with 25+ yrs still has not gotten his pension. Another story that comes to mind is a Sgt who was helping a widow divest of her husband's gun shop business, was fired for selling weapons without an FFL license. Must be about 20 odd years ago.

Your pension is not protected at 20 yrs. The city of new York can terminate you and make you sue for your pension.

Once you have already retired and collecting, the city cannot revoke it over a misdemeanor. That's the only protection the law offers.

[Prosay]

Folks go down to Pension unannounced all of the time. As stated above, who cares about the Good Guy Letter.

That's because, in essence, they have the "permission of the police commissioner."

But if you're name appears on Page 3 of the Monday morning NY Post, chances are when you go to the Pension Section, they'll tell you to "go up and see Chief So-and-So in Personnel..." and that's when the fun begins.

So it really comes down to the idea that EVERYONE has "the permission," until they want to pull it.

Your pension is not protected at 20 yrs. The city of new York can terminate you and make you sue for your pension.

That's the way I read it, too, in one form or another.

And keep in mind: this "permission" thing only holds for the NYPD; no other department has it. It's in the city's Administrative Code.  That's why when you read about some cop getting jammed up upstate somewhere, you also read about them running to put their papers in, and getting out immediately, and only facing criminal charges (if the word "only" is the proper term...).

[Prosay]

Keep in mind that the term "resignation" also includes retirements; essentially everyone "resigns" from the job...most then apply for, and get, a pension, others don't.  We differentiate between the two terms because each term has underlying meaning and significance......

NYC Admin. Code:

§ 14-126 Resignations, absence on leave.
a. A member of the force, under penalty of forfeiting the salary which may be due such member, (charges and specs?) shall not withdraw or resign, except by permission of the commissioner.
b. Absence, without leave, of any member of the force for five
consecutive days shall be deemed and held to be a resignation, and the
member so absent shall, at the expiration of such period cease to be a
member of the force and be dismissed therefrom without notice.
c. Leave of absence, other than for sickness, exceeding thirty days in
any one year shall be granted or allowed to any member of the force,
only upon the condition that such member shall waive and release not
less than one-half of all salary and claim thereto during such absence.

[dustoff262]

The big difference is what you do while on the job vs what you do once you are already retired.

If you have 25 yrs on, and dole out before you retire, you can be terminated and lose everything. You can be already retired, and get arrested over a bag of weed, your pension cannot be revoked for that.

The law protects your pension after you are retired.

If the job has a bullseye on you, nothing can save you. Walk the tight rope and jump off at 20. Its still Russian roulette everyday past 20.

[tangonocash]

footage of his training was just released.

[nuthinbutdatruth]

Hi wobbly,
let me give you a certain perspective.  I don’t know what job you have but let’s take a doctor.  If a doc gets collared for DWI, after posting bail he gets to go on with his life, seeing his patients, making his money.  If he doesn’t go to jail he will have to pay but he won’t get fired.  It used to be that if a cop was convicted of any misd. or felony(obvious) he was automatically fired.  Unless he had a HUGE hook.  That’s why guys like me retired after 20 years, because every day you go to work you risked losing your pension.

i know a cop who was waiting at a red light.  A knucklehead kid on a motorcycle lost control because he was speeding and smashed into the cops car.  The kid died.  So now you have a vehicular death and in the ensuing police investigation the cop was required to blow and he was actually over the limit.  Mind you, he was stopped at a red light just waiting for it to turn green. The DA did his best to throw him in jail AFTER he was terminated.

The Job was losing so many experienced guys because we didn’t want to play pension roulette that they eased up on their rules of termination.

Just saying.  Merry Christmas to you and your family

[62a4rmndr]

Another interesting spin: Queens South Robbery Sergeant Ron Buell breaks into department computers using other cops codes, runs names and sells sensitive federal homicide case information to a flunky defense private eye named Joe Dwyer. Buell puts other cops lives at risk and lines his pockets with $9000. Subsequently the FBI opens a confidential investigation that is leaked to NYPD. As such, a couple of NYPD losers tip Buell off, and lo and behold, Buell runs and puts his papers in before he gets arrested. Fast forward: By the time he pleads guilty to a felony in federal court, he has preserved his pension. He further gives a corrupt FU to the system by applying for and winning an SBA scholarship a year later. So there you have it. Not only does a federal felon have a pension, his union awarded him membership money to boot. All true.

[dustoff262]

Dec 24, 2017 21:02:07 GMT -5 62a4rmndr said:

Another interesting spin: Queens South Robbery Sergeant Ron Buell breaks into department computers using other cops codes, runs names and sells sensitive federal homicide case information to a flunky defense private eye named Joe Dwyer. Buell puts other cops lives at risk and lines his pockets with $9000. Subsequently the FBI opens a confidential investigation that is leaked to NYPD. As such, a couple of NYPD losers tip Buell off, and lo and behold, Buell runs and puts his papers in before he gets arrested. Fast forward: By the time he pleads guilty to a felony in federal court, he has preserved his pension. He further gives a corrupt FU to the system by applying for and winning an SBA scholarship a year later. So there you have it. Not only does a federal felon have a pension, his union awarded him membership money to boot. All true.

It worked in his favor because he retired before an indictment and conviction. The department has gone after people who tried to retire by adding up their sick time (non LOD) and readjusting their retirement date to keep them on active status and tell them they can't retire until their new anniversary date. If they do that, the MOS is phucked. That means they are gunning for them and they want their pound of flesh. The job can do some strange things and get away with it.

The following is from Seethroughny.net website

[dustoff262]

Buell only made $848 for 2016. Zero for 2017. I don't think he is collecting his pension. I ran my name in there (payroll) and I appear for 2017 and I've been retired since last year 2016. If you search payroll, the name appears but if you search pension, nypd retirees do not show up. Buell only shows up for 2016, the last time he received a check. He may not be collecting a pension after all. He does not show up for 2017 in payroll or pension.

[dustoff262]

I do not think he is collecting his pension at all.  2014 he collected his base pay.  2015 he took in another 5k for the entire year and 2016  $ 848.  I think they really nailed him.

[wobblypops]

Dec 24, 2017 14:33:17 GMT -5 nuthinbutdatruth said:

Hi wobbly,
let me give you a certain perspective.  I don’t know what job you have but let’s take a doctor.  If a doc gets collared for DWI, after posting bail he gets to go on with his life, seeing his patients, making his money.  If he doesn’t go to jail he will have to pay but he won’t get fired.  It used to be that if a cop was convicted of any misd. or felony(obvious) he was automatically fired.  Unless he had a HUGE hook.  That’s why guys like me retired after 20 years, because every day you go to work you risked losing your pension.

i know a cop who was waiting at a red light.  A knucklehead kid on a motorcycle lost control because he was speeding and smashed into the cops car.  The kid died.  So now you have a vehicular death and in the ensuing police investigation the cop was required to blow and he was actually over the limit.  Mind you, he was stopped at a red light just waiting for it to turn green. The DA did his best to throw him in jail AFTER he was terminated.

The Job was losing so many experienced guys because we didn’t want to play pension roulette that they eased up on their rules of termination.

Just saying.  Merry Christmas to you and your family

I'm actually a machinist by trade but I hate it with a passion. I see what you are saying there and I respect that. Maybe I just can't see why anyone would steal from a store or even drink and drive. I don't even go online once I open my first beer. I don't ever go out drinking even when I go out to eat I will have water or a soda.

I stole a pack of caramel when I was a kid. My dad say me chewing on something and he knew I had no money so he caught me redhanded. He marched my little butt down to the mom and pop pharmacy and made me give back the uneaten candy and pay for them. I was in tears. I was so embarrassed and I never stole another thing again. I even ask for the pen at the bank.

[exfed2002]

Dec 25, 2017 5:47:24 GMT -5 wobblypops said:

he knew I had no money so he caught me redhanded. He marched my little butt down to the mom and pop pharmacy and made me give back the uneaten candy and pay for them. I was in tears. I was so embarrassed and I never stole another thing again. I even ask for the pen at the bank.

The world would be a much better place if more parents were like your Dad.

[62a4rmndr]

Dec 24, 2017 23:11:40 GMT -5 dustoff262 said:

I do not think he is collecting his pension at all.  2014 he collected his base pay.  2015 he took in another 5k for the entire year and 2016  $ 848.  I think they really nailed him.

Negative K. Secured pension and SBA scholarship to boot. These two shithead perps managed to fuck up federal homicide cases, put law enforcement lives at risk and receive slaps on wrists because strings were pulled at the federal prosecutors office. One of the worst NYPD corruption cases in years swept under the rug.

[nuthinbutdatruth]

Dec 25, 2017 5:47:24 GMT -5 wobblypops said:

Dec 24, 2017 14:33:17 GMT -5 nuthinbutdatruth said:

Hi wobbly,
let me give you a certain perspective.  I don’t know what job you have but let’s take a doctor.  If a doc gets collared for DWI, after posting bail he gets to go on with his life, seeing his patients, making his money.  If he doesn’t go to jail he will have to pay but he won’t get fired.  It used to be that if a cop was convicted of any misd. or felony(obvious) he was automatically fired.  Unless he had a HUGE hook.  That’s why guys like me retired after 20 years, because every day you go to work you risked losing your pension.

i know a cop who was waiting at a red light.  A knucklehead kid on a motorcycle lost control because he was speeding and smashed into the cops car.  The kid died.  So now you have a vehicular death and in the ensuing police investigation the cop was required to blow and he was actually over the limit.  Mind you, he was stopped at a red light just waiting for it to turn green. The DA did his best to throw him in jail AFTER he was terminated.

The Job was losing so many experienced guys because we didn’t want to play pension roulette that they eased up on their rules of termination.

Just saying.  Merry Christmas to you and your family

I'm actually a machinist by trade but I hate it with a passion. I see what you are saying there and I respect that. Maybe I just can't see why anyone would steal from a store or even drink and drive. I don't even go online once I open my first beer. I don't ever go out drinking even when I go out to eat I will have water or a soda.

I stole a pack of caramel when I was a kid. My dad say me chewing on something and he knew I had no money so he caught me redhanded. He marched my little butt down to the mom and pop pharmacy and made me give back the uneaten candy and pay for them. I was in tears. I was so embarrassed and I never stole another thing again. I even ask for the pen at the bank.

Your father and my father went to the same school.  My pals worked in McDonald’s when I was growing up and one of them gave me 10 bucks of food for a dollar.  My pops heard me telling this to my friend while I was on the phone.  He marched me into the store and made me apologize and pay the full price.  A lesson well learned.

[wobblypops]

He was a very abusive man but I will say he really did instill values in me. I've always held a job. I never collected any form of welfare or insurance or food stamps and for those lessons I am so glad he was my father. The beatings sucked but we all have our faults. I don't know if he is dead or alive but I'm okay with that.

Me and 2 girls went to a store to try on new bras. This was right after we got out of our training bra. They told me to go into the fitting room and keep the new bra on and stick the old one in the box. I said okay but I didn't have the guts to do it.

I came out of the dressing room to put the box back on the shelf and am employee took it and opened the box. I was so glad I chickened out but they ended up getting caught shoplifting. That was back in the 70s and lucky for them they didn't call the cops back then. My parents would have broke my fingers.

[RetirementIsParole]

Dec 24, 2017 7:46:07 GMT -5 lexordo said:

Dustoff...
It’s my recollection that provided you have put in the time, you can retire at any point you choose. I believe that NYPD can only deny you the famous “good guy letter”

Dept can refuse to issue the good guy letter and if a city resident, a pistol permit. If not a city resident, without a good guy letter a pistol permit is discretionary by the responsible licensing authority.
If leaving the Dept while not "in good standing" he is permanently ineligible from HR218/LEOSA coverage even if he manages to obtain a pistol permit from somewhere. The pending reciprocity bill is not 100% the same as HR218/LEOSA particularly if any future improvements are made to the act.

[PDU]

If you are not convicted of a felony you keep your pension if you have over 20 years . Simple end of story