The killing of Daniel Shaver by an overzealous AZ cop

[keltec]

The one thing you could say about me as a rookie was that i was a sponge , learning everything i could from the oldest cops working .

I was given this advice when new - "Kid , dont dance with people" . If your gonna make an arrest or make a scene safe then DO IT . Why could'nt they just cuff the kid when he was lying prone ? Why scream after the kid was complying ? 

This cop was getting angrier and more hopped up by the second . Yea , the kid reached to keep his pants up . But where is the common sense ? He is crying and crawling , do you really think he is gonna suddenly attack you as you point your M4 at his head ?

I always give the benefit to the cop , but imagine if that were your kid .

[msmajor]

Just a little aside.
Then there was the fireside ode ,specially good this time of year.
“I don’t know what that man is talking about , all I heard was. “Merry Christmas mother fauker” and I woke up in the hospital in January”.

[capecodotj]

Dec 10, 2017 14:52:40 GMT -5 msmajor said:

Just a little aside.
Then there was the fireside ode ,specially good this time of year.
“I don’t know what that man is talking about , all I heard was. “Merry Christmas mother fauker” and I woke up in the hospital in January”.

Old Stakeout Unit story.

[nuthinbutdatruth]

Dec 10, 2017 18:07:23 GMT -5 capecodotj said:

Dec 10, 2017 14:52:40 GMT -5 msmajor said:

Just a little aside.
Then there was the fireside ode ,specially good this time of year.
“I don’t know what that man is talking about , all I heard was. “Merry Christmas mother fauker” and I woke up in the hospital in January”.

Old Stakeout Unit story.

That was from Transit Booth Robbery unit.  That statement shut the unit down.  Dude’s were robbing a flower shop on the mezz of 56th and 6th I believe when the boys popped out from behind a flower display and uttered those classic words.  Words that the perp repeated to IAB in the hospital.  Transit thought the unit was getting a little out of hand...    

[dustoff262]

I'm posting this link of TMZ Harvey Levin's remarks of the shooting. He states clearly what many here feel. But its the comments below the video (scroll all the way down past the other recommended videos) that you should read.

Many are calling for killing more cops.

Be vigilant. Keep your hands ready and not stuffed in your pockets. Don't use your phones. Keep your eyes sharply on your surroundings.

Apparently the jury was not allowed to see the "You're F÷cked" photos of the M4 dust cover. It had been ruled too prejudicial to the defendant. If they were allowed to see them, the verdict may have been different.

youtu.be/N8UB1sNciQw

[super6four]

I agree with most that this at minimum is a bad shooting. I realize that we are making assumptions solely based on on what we see on the video. I get it, I wasn’t there. Reading individuals and their body movements is a skill that takes a while to develop.

I can think of 3 videos I’ve seen were the perps are not following the instructions of the officers. In those videos it was apparent to me that the perps were formulating a plan in their head and all 3 videos ended with them shooting at the officers.

I didn’t see that behavior from the deceased in this video. He seemed nervous and scared. (Having officers with long guns pointed at you and screaming threats and confusing instructions will do that) This video did not sit well with me.

I’ve seen some of the trial footage where the cop testified on his own defense but it was just his defense attorney walking him through the events. I don’t know how the prosecution handled the cross examination.

[The Detail Rack Guy]

Dec 10, 2017 11:48:51 GMT -5 keltec said:

The one thing you could say about me as a rookie was that i was a sponge , learning everything i could from the oldest cops working .

I was given this advice when new - "Kid , dont dance with people" . If your gonna make an arrest or make a scene safe then DO IT . Why could'nt they just cuff the kid when he was lying prone ? Why scream after the kid was complying ? 

This cop was getting angrier and more hopped up by the second . Yea , the kid reached to keep his pants up . But where is the common sense ? He is crying and crawling , do you really think he is gonna suddenly attack you as you point your M4 at his head ?

I always give the benefit to the cop , but imagine if that were your kid .

Well put. Here is what I think is a BIG part of the problem, and I hate to say it, but here goes.

Most, if not all, of these young cops, grew up watching that idiotic "COPS" tv show. What they see on that show gets ingrained in their heads. And that show has some really bad tactics from some departments. God, I hate that show. 

Like many guys here said, enough with all the screaming and commands. I have seen this for ages on that show, and it always leaves me shaking my head. I'm sitting there with my wife and joking about all the commands they are screaming and I start making jokes to her; I start saying, "Do a back-flip!,,,Now a cart-wheel!... now stand on one foot and lift your other leg to your forehead!... "Who was the 10th President of the USA?? ANSWER ME, MF'er!!"  (John Tyler, in case you were wondering).   I make jokes, but I really hate these asinine tactics. You ID yourself as a cop, you are in uniform. You make a clear command- "Lay down on the ground". GO UP TO HIM AND PUT HIM IN CUFFS ALREADY. 

  How many 10-16 (stolen car) vehicles have we/I pulled over? A shitload. Sometimes the alarm was never taken off the license plate. The driver has no idea his car is popping up stolen on our radio or computer. I would approach cautiously, with my gun in hand, at the ready. But I would not start screaming at the driver if they are complying. 

 So back to the hotel. Have him lay down, hands spread out. Cuff him, toss him (feel him up for weapons, for the civilians here), neutralize him (or them, as it may be), and the threat. Stop the goddamned theatrics, FFS. I see episodes where 8 cops are taking 10 minutes to give orders, instead of putting hands on the guy/gal. These cops KNOW they will be on TV and THIS is their moment to shine. I wouldn't want a film crew anywhere near me. 

[exfed2002]

Dec 13, 2017 23:57:57 GMT -5 The Detail Rack Guy said:

  How many 10-16 (stolen car) vehicles have we/I pulled over? A shitload. Sometimes the alarm was never taken off the license plate. The driver has no idea his car is popping up stolen on our radio or computer. I would approach cautiously, with my gun in hand, at the ready. But I would not start screaming at the driver if they are complying. ;

Many many years ago in the PDRNJ there was an MOS in a town near me who had his vehicle stolen. It was put into NCIC properly and was recovered, but they never reported it recovered and so the record stayed there.

One day the MOS is driving and somebody runs the plate and it comes up hot. The usual happens, his PD is notified, and the record is cleared.

But one of the bosses asks if he was armed at the time. He wasn't.

He gets written up for violating department policy requiring him to be armed off duty.

[dustoff262]

If we want to make sure an incident, that of which happened to Mr. Shaver, never happens again, senior guys need to step up and take control if time permits. It may not be their "sector" but no one works in a vacuum. You know the voice or the sector on the radio, and know the combined experience on scene. Bosses can give instructions to isolate and contain, if no shots have been fired, until they arrive. This should only apply when it is known that this job rises to the level that requires additional resources, such as SWAT, HNT, or their version of TARU.

If the shooting starts, all bets are off. Defend yourself and others in your vicinity.

I understand some jurisdictions have limited resources, but nothing can replace common sense and experience. The year of the sheriff in a one horse town are long over.

We need some serious self reflection to truly understand what our duty to the public and to each other is. Mr. Shaver deserves such. He was law abiding to the end.